Newbie Looking for help/tutorial

[cozz3]

Hey everyone, I am completely new to IMC and map making.   We are heading to a remote location in Canada this year and after 30 hours of failure I cannot figure out how to build a very basic map that will display in my Lowrance Elite 5 chirp. My primary objective is to use the map to navigate the lake and record my sonar during the trip.

I can download what I believe are shape files from http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/toporama/en/index.html. I'm trying to cover Lake Windermere in Ontario.  After I downloaded the files i converted the .shp files to wg84 with Qgis per the IMC instructions document.  The went to IMC and added the shape files.  In attribute mode I set u_limit to 19 and l_Limit to 0.  New shape files were created which I then went back to vector mode and added the newly created shape files then clicked build and one large.at5 file was created. 

 Again I'm new to this and willing to put in the time to learn but after scouring the web for help I can't figure out how to troubleshoot.  Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[fjordfischer]

U_Limit and L_Limit is not sufficient. You need more attributes.

For more informations it was helpful, if you save your files as *.zip file, rename to *.zi_ and set to this forum posts, or you use the forum mail address from the impressum site for ship.

[gregory]

For area features, COLOR (and/or CLRRGB on units that support it) is also required.  Without a specified color, your area features will be rendering transparent.

[cozz3]

Thanks fellas, here are the shape files I'm working with.

[fjordfischer]

If Gregory don't have a problem with this or other ideas, you can expect a solution after weekend.
1. Your coordinate system is not wgs84 (ETRS 4326).

2. You must learn to edit the attributes with the IMC or GIS-software ....
The IMC can be very helpful for this task.

[cozz3]

Sorry, I thought that was only required for raster files.  I couldn't find in the IMC documentation where there was a step to reproject shape files.   This is the raw data I was working with when I first started the project. 

 

[fjordfischer]

no problem.

[fjordfischer]

1. Transform shapes into WGS84 coordinate system. If possible delete the most columns of the attribut table, exept names.
2. Use the IMC attribute mode for creation of new area shape files. You only must heed COLOR and LAYER (pic. 10-13).
3. Use the IMC attribute mode for creation of new line shape files. You only must heed COLOR (pic. 14) .
4. Use the IMC vector mode for AT5 creation (pic. 15).
5. Result in the Insight Planner (pic. 16).

Sample files attached.
 

[cozz3]

I really appreciate the detailed write up!  Your map looks perfect and  I'm glad to see its possible.  I went through the steps as described except change the U_Limit to 19 since I think my Lowrance elite 5 Chirp will only handle one .at5 file.  I tested the file I created in the elite simulator with no luck.  Then tried in again in my actual unit.  It beeps like it recognizes the map but nothing is displayed on the screen nor do I see a border of the map.  Also, tried  your at5 file but no luck. 

I think I may have messed up when using qGIS and didn't convert the files correctly.  I will give it another go

 

[fjordfischer]

Do you have exactly search in the correct region (coordinates visible in the pic.)?
Do you set your unit in chrat setting to "Lowrance"?
My AT5 is v12, i will create a v10 today evening.

Use both AT5!!! It's from one and the same chart/region. This should be not a problem.
If you use the Elite simulator - do you have place the file on the correct folder?

I only used 4 shapefiles. You can add more datas/option if you want.

[Hubert]

If you just want a better backgrounhd map, you simply could create your own map by downloading your area from Open Street Map and create with IMC.

This video is also available with english subtitles ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhEgUv87zXc[/youtube]

In IMC you have to use at5 Version 10 for your unit.

On this link you can create an OSM map from your desired area, even from your own selectable area. As export-Format for your OSM-map you should select the *.pbf format.

If I have discovered the right area (North of Toronto - southeast of Parry Sound), you can download the desired map from this link. This link only will work for 48 hours.

B.t.w. ... in the area of Parry Sound - Killbear park I already have been for recreation and also for fishing.

[cozz3]

Thanks again for your help.  I've learned a lot through this process and trying keep this simple for my first go around.  Yeah, I navigated to the coordinates on the screen shot but then the screen attempts to skip over a section in both the emulator and my unit.  Also, set the chart to Lowrance.  I can try both files again this evening.  On the Elite 5 emulator, I put the files in a folder I created called maps0 and when I go to system>settting>browse files I can see the file as listed on the emulated SD card.   

Back in the day I used MapSource 6.3 and when I created maps they would display with an outline box then I could zoom into to the specific region.  The test files with IMC also display similar to MapSource.  I tested my old MapSource at5 files and they worked in the maps0 folder.   

[gregory]

I really appreciate the detailed write up!  Your map looks perfect and  I'm glad to see its possible.  I went through the steps as described except change the U_Limit to 19 since I think my Lowrance elite 5 Chirp will only handle one .at5 file.  I tested the file I created in the elite simulator with no luck.  Then tried in again in my actual unit.  It beeps like it recognizes the map but nothing is displayed on the screen nor do I see a border of the map.  Also, tried  your at5 file but no luck. 

I think I may have messed up when using qGIS and didn't convert the files correctly.  I will give it another go

 

One at5 file is not a limitation of the Elite unit.  Setting the U_LIMIT to 19, your maps are only going to be visible when zoomed in...you're probably not zoomed in far enough to see them.

[Hubert]

@cozz3 / Greg:

For test usages: download the zipfile in the link below and extract the complete content to a sd-card. It contains OSM-maps from your area and a folders to use 'as is' on your plotter. at5 are V10.
http://www.coreboat.com/downloads/Ontario.zip

[fjordfischer]

AT5 v10

[cozz3]

Hey Fjordfischer - the file worked perfectly!  Absolutely amazing to see this actually work.   I checked some of the island coordinate on the map against google earth.  They were pretty close but maybe a little off when I was checking points of the island.  Is that common? I assume the map is only as good  as the data that was used to generate it.  Moving forward, I should follow your previous instructions but create the file under atlas 10?   

 
All – thanks for the much needed support!    I’m hoping my schedule permit to make a few maps in the next couple of days and play around using OSM files. 
   

[fjordfischer]

Yes v10.

The 2 following pics show the original island file (as WGS84) in my GIS application over aerial photo and the same aerial photo without the shape.

[cozz3]

Just a quick update.   I was able to build a map covering most of ontario and works perfectly on my Lowrance.  Thanks again for everyone's help. 

[ncfatboy]

When I load a shp file, I cannot use the attribute mode (it's greyed out). What attributes are required? I built an at5 map using QGIS 4 years ago, when IMC was beta, but I cannot remember which attributes were required for an HDS lake map. L_LIMIT, U_LIMIT are the only attributes that the documentation says are required. I also have a gpx shoreline that I converted to shp file with QGIS by saving as a .shp, but IMC says "Read size does not match expected read size".

[gregory]

The Attribute Mode (View->Processing Modes) never gets grayed out.  The Attribute Advanced Options (Advanced Options->Attribute Options) are grayed out if the current mode or window does not use it.

Read through the documentation on area attributes and look at defaulted values.  COLOR, for example, would also be required if you're trying to render an opaque polygon since it defaults to transparent.

"Read size does not match expected read size" is a low level assertion which means that it tried to read X bytes from a file but there was less than X bytes available to read from that file.  Make sure you're running with the latest public release (IMC V0.7.4.0) and if you are, it's likely something with your shapefile.

[gregory]

On your attachment, a shapefile requires at least a shp (geometric information), a shx (index file - file position/length), and a dbf (attribution).

[ncfatboy]

Thanks Gregory, I added a few more attributes, COLOR, RTP_COLOR, RTP_LIMIT, WIDTH, MODE, FONT. I guess the COLOR attribute is what made it show up. I recalled those attributes when working with Navico 4 yrs ago. I still have a problem with my shoreline file. I am migrating from DrDepth to IMC and QGIS. Still getting the read size error. Appreciate the help.

My Shoreline file is a .drd file that I converted to gpx and loaded into QGIS, then saved as a .shp. When saved with QGIS, it creates all three files shp, shx and dbf. Do all three need to be added to the IMC file list for the build? At this time I am only adding the .shp file. I am also only using the shp for the other map files. Do I need to include the shx and dbfs in the IMC file list?

John

[gregory]

No.  The shp is the primary file.  The shx and dbf files just need to have the same filename.

Post your shoreline file (including the shx and dbf) or at least a sample file that has that problem and I'll take a look at it.

[ncfatboy]

Thanks Gregory.

I am assuming that since my maps have no background color, that the shoreline shp file should be a MIN_CAT of Depth Area? An old map that I made (at5) shows a blue lake area, but I do not recall how I did that either (shaking my head).Probably because I was being walked through it and didn't know what attribute did what 4 yrs ago. I just tried a map with just L_LIMIT, U_LIMIT and COLOR and it did not work, so I'll add the other attributes, but I am not sure exactly why those attributes would affect it. RTP COLOR LIMIT seem to be text color, maybe it is MODE=T?

[gregory]

The shapefile is using a polylinez type with an excluded m type.

The IMC doesn't support leaving out optional data members but I'll code that in for the next version.

Can you export as polyline instead?

[ncfatboy]

I can export as a csv, or convert to gpx or kml. I did this before with a guy named Shane from Navico, but don't recall how.

[gregory]

Shapefile should be your preferred export.

Refer to the shapefile wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile.

There's a section for geometric types.  The export coming from QGIS is exporting PolygonZ features which have a X (Longitude), Y (Latitude), M (Measure), and Z (Height) component.  According to the format, M is optional but the IMC will still attempt to read it which is causing the assert.  QGIS is writing out X, Y, and Z and skipping the M write but there is no Z or M data in the feature so no reason to use the PolygonZ type at all.

[ncfatboy]

So, it can't be done? In DRDepth only calculated maps can be exported to .shp. I can convert a shoreline to gpx or kml, but a calculated map of the shoreline doesn't seem to produce a viable .shp file (does not display in QGIS). I read Wikipedia, but I am not a GIS expert. I can get the shoreline into QGIS via the GPX file, but cannot export it in a format that IMC can use? I tried to export to .shp in QGIS with a geometry of 'polygon' but it fails to export.

[gregory]

Maybe someone can specify a way to reclassify that feature.

I don't use QGIS all that much.

[ncfatboy]

I used vector->geometry->lines to polygon. Build in IMC worked. I wish I knew how to re-install the HDS simulator I have. I saved the files from another machine it was installed on, but it requests I re-install it. Is it just a path variable? Do you by chance have an installer?

[ods-homer]

If you just want a better backgrounhd map, you simply could create your own map by downloading your area from Open Street Map and create with IMC.

This video is also available with english subtitles ...

lovely accent 
I'm bavarian as well....

I made a map for my Elite 5TI following your tutorial.
That worked great, but I have one funny feature: whereas all areas like agricultural, sand etc are shown in plain colours, the wood areas look like real wood

Is that a bug or a feature?

[gregory]

Feature but it's easy to change if it's not to your taste.

The icon was based on satellite imagery in some nearby woods that I thought tiled fairly well.

Go to View->Icon Documentation->Icon Documentation Window
Find the "OSM_FILL_FOREST" in the window
Double click on the name and do "Add Icon(s)" with an empty name.
This selected icon can be anything (solid color or icon more to your liking).
Go to View->Icon Documentation->Save Icon Library

Any new OSM data will be processed with your modified icon as a tiled fill.

If you want to revert to the original icon, you can replace the InsightMapCreator.dat with the original or you can import the fill forest from the IMC_Icons zip (don't remember if I included that with V0.7.4.0).

[ods-homer]

Thanks for the quick reply 

But knowing now it's a feature and i didn't mess anything up when making the map I think I'll just keep it as it is to honour your work 

[las97ttu]

Hello!
I'm working on my first vector map for Hook-5 device and have a problem with its displaying. Seems like doing something wrong.
All *.at5 files are not seeing on the emulator or device, just a black square seen that comes from the "map wrapping" feature of the IMC (see attach, Finland region).
The source shape files are vectors that are fully opened and accessible on the internet. I'm just opening them in QGIS and convert to the right wgs84 projection. May be some optional features should be activated there in QGIS (see attach)?
All possible attributes from IMC manual are added do dbf file but I'm not sure if they adjusted correctly, could you check that please?
Any ideas are welcome!
Thanks!

[fjordfischer]

The most important problem is, that you have no select any color for area and border. I've select COLOR as "11" and BDR_COLOR as "1" ("11" give a continuous area). "255" is transparent.

But you should "merge" the areas with lines as borders between the shape areas.

[las97ttu]

fjordfischer, Thanks you, that was the problem really!
But I have one problem more- some thin horizontal lines appear on the emulator and the device after converting in ICM. They do not disappear after zooming in or out, seem like a constant lines. What could be the reason of such a lines?
angler.ee/test.zip

[gregory]

Rendering issue on that chart plotter.  That geometry is technically not in the data.

In the next versions of the IMC (beta), there is a polygon clean performed which cleans up these lines.

When data is clipped to a block, it's done by polygon part.  On a corner that, for example, connects on the top and right of the block but not the top right, there can be a fill part that that goes to the corner and a hole part that goes to the corner.  With a Inside/Outside fill, you should be able to prevent this hole section from being rendered (which NOS does but not Blue/Indigo/Violet) if you can account for this not being a border (which the current IMC does).  However, if this doesn't work (because of rendering issues), your only recourse is to cut the hole out of the fill in the geometry (cross polygon part merging).

[las97ttu]

gregory,
ok, thanks!

[alexh]

I know this is an older post, but i didn't wanted to start a new topic, because it's somehow related to this.
I year ago a started using IMC for creating my own custom maps with satellite images. And I found at that time that there are lot's of methods.

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